The Juvenator – 800m

In my last post I introduced the Juvenator and explained the narrow range of performances that define the very best of the World’s track athletes. Previously I outlined the methodology of creating this range (i.e. creating a perfect bell curve from World Athletics lists).

Let’s quickly review the Juvenator.

The Juvenator is NOT intended to estimate what your youthful performance (or potential performance) was or could have been. It is extremely unlikely that you would have ever been able to perform at the levels of the athletes included in the Juvenator bell curve.  For example in the 400m, the slowest point on the bell curve is 46.25. For women, the slowest performance is 53.50.

No, the concept is to say, for example, if you are a W60 400m runner, then you are one of the World’s elites in the 400m. Granted W60 400m sprinting is not as competitive as Open Women’s 400. That is a given.  But that is beside the point! You should think of yourself as an elite. Be proud of yourself and what you do. Think of all the training you put in. Certainly compared to all those “couch potatoes” you see in your daily life.

So when thinking of yourself as an elite, here is how your performance in your age group equates to the ultimate World Elite grouping. Relatively speaking, that’s how good you are!

Now for the 800m.

As with the 400m, the goal was to create a perfect bell curve with the 800m performances from World Athletics. The All Time list for Men goes as deep as 1:46.00, and for the Women to 2:02.00. To create a perfect curve we needed to add further performances. Best individual year performances from 2016-2019 from World Athletics were added up to 1:48.00 for Men and 2:08.00 for Women.

All the Masters Men’s WRs equivalize to 1:43.xx (except Johnny Gray’s astonishing M35 1:43.36 which registers a 1:42.82 equivalent). For the Women, Masters WRs are generally equal to 1:56-1:57 except for Yekatarina Podkopayeva’s W40 and W45 records which come in at 1:54 high and 1:55 low.

Because of its extremely competitive nature and narrowing of Elite performances into a bell curve, it takes a lot to move the needle at the Open/World Elite level.  Even a second or more improvement, depending on the age group, may not make a significant change in your Open/World Elite comparison.

With that background, I invite you to give it a try for your 800m performance. Click the link below and enter your Age Group. Select 800m from the drop down menu. Enter your time, then click the green “OK … Done … Go” button. You will receive your duncanSCORE and percentile. Now click the orange “Run JUVENATOR” button to the right. Remember, it’s not designed to estimate what you “did or could have” run. Rather it shows what an Elite would need to run to equal your time. One elite cohort compared to another. I looked at my 800s for the past few years. I can be happy with that!

Your Open/World Elite equivalent time.

Run Juvenator

And if you would like to view your duncanSCORE for a different track event, just go here.

Track DE


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Should you be new to the duncanSCORE and confused on what’s it’s all about … the standardized alternative to age grading …, you can get more information here.

Test Drive 800m for M-W 75+, A Better Read on Older Age Groups (3)

Photo courtesy of Doug Shaggy Smith

This is the 3rd post detailing what’s happening to improve the quality and depth of duncanSCORE  for older age-groups (75 plus). It’s also part of duncanSCORE 2.0, a general improvement in the ways this new method of evaluating Masters’ performances can work for you.

I have now updated the data for the 800m. Prior posts highlighted the work done for the 100m and  200m, and 400m.

A Brief Recap

Here is a quick review. To date all duncanSCORE calculations are based on an accumulation of best individual performances for the years 2013-2016 inclusive. In case you are interested or would like a refresher, here are the nuts and bolts of how the calculator works and the results generated.

For most age-groups and events there are many hundreds and often, thousands, of performances. But as the age-groups get older, after about age 55, the number of participants begins to decline rapidly. This is especially the case for Women, and the longer, more technical events.

To add performances to these older age-groups I am including from the years 2017, 2018, and for 2019 the performances posted at processing time. Further, to boost the number of performances, I have included the US rankings John Seto had produced for the years 2008-2012. Before John did the World rankings, they were maintained by Martin Gasselsberger and I have used Martin’s top ranking performances from 2008-2012. The British Masters also keep rankings and I have used those available from 2008-2012.

What You Get

What this means is that I have been able to more than double the number of performances accessed by the calculator, which improves the quality of the output.

For the 800m this really impacts M85 and M90 and W80 and W85, making the duncanSCOREs for these age-groups much more solid. Even for these age-groups though, results versus the previous release differ by no more than 1 or 2 percentiles for the vast majority of race results. For M75 and M80, and W75, the added performances don’t materially change the results.

Sadly, however, there still are not enough performances to have reliable scores for M95 and W90 and W95 age-groups.

Take a test drive

If you are 75 or older and race the 800m, take a quick peek at how you rate against your peers from around the world. And if you’ve just turned 75 or moved into an older age-group, put in last year’s time and see how it would fare in your new age-group.  It’s very easy, click here

Track DE

Then from the drop down menu choose your age-group. Next select  “800m” from the track EVENT drop down list. Finally, enter your time (in minutes and seconds) and then click the green  “Ok … Done …GO” button.

You will be given a “score” and a “percentile”. The percentile tells you what percentage of your age-group peers across the globe you are (as fast as or) faster than.

Test it out!



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